you could see well before the election of 2008 the excitement for obama. i felt it myself obviously at the rallies we'd go to. all the speeches. this time around it was an effective excitement. it wasn't we love this guy's speeches. the speeches weren't that great this time by obama but it was effectively excited because they decided to vote for other reasons. how come it wasn't palpable that this guy was going to get the same turnout he got last time? >> well, it was clear to joel bennenson who was the obama pollster and who got it right on the money. it was clear in the average polls. i think john is right about this, there was an assumption inside the party that there was going to be a different electorate. >> did you see it, bob? did you see the excitement this time we both saw in '08 for obama? >> of course you didn't see the same level of excitement but i saw a level of determination that was intense. i saw people waiting for hours in line in the polls. i'll tell you one other thing. you cannot explain simply by your conception of what the electorate